In a tense phone call on the morning of January 6, 2021, then-President Donald Trump reportedly told Vice President Mike Pence that he would “go down as a wimp” if he did not refuse to certify the election results. This dramatic revelation comes from new details revealed in Jonathan Karl’s upcoming book, “Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America.” The book cites handwritten notes taken by Pence during the Trump Pence Call, providing a direct account of Donald Trump’s intense pressure campaign in the final hours before the Capitol attack. This development sheds further light on the extraordinary efforts by the outgoing president to overturn the 2020 American election results, particularly concerning the crucial Trump Pence Call.
The Heated Exchange and Pence’s Resolve Regarding the Trump Pence Call
The phone conversation, which took place around 11 a.m. on January 6th, hours before a mob of Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol, captured the stark divide between the President and his Vice President. According to Pence’s notes, as reported by ABC News, Trump sought to shame Pence into rejecting the Electoral College votes that would confirm Joe Biden’s victory. “You’ll go down as a wimp,” Trump allegedly told Pence. He also reportedly added, “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago,” referencing his decision to select Pence as his running mate in 2016. This was a key moment in the Trump Pence call.
Pence, however, appears to have stood firm, writing in his notes that both men had taken “an oath to support + defend the constitution.” His notes captured his belief that “It doesn’t take courage to break the law. It takes courage to uphold the law.” Further adding to the reported pressure during the Trump Pence call, Trump also allegedly stated, “You listen to the wrong people.” Pence’s recorded response was, “I listen to my heart and my mind.”
Pence’s Notes: A Key Piece of Evidence from the Trump Pence Call
Jonathan Karl’s “Retribution” draws heavily on Pence’s previously unpublished notes, which were taken in his day planner and have become a critical piece of evidence in understanding the events of that day, especially concerning the Trump Pence call. These notes were reportedly considered vital by special counsel Jack Smith’s team as potential evidence in a criminal case against Donald Trump, had one proceeded to trial before Trump’s re-election and a subsequent Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity. The detailed notes paint a vivid picture of Trump’s persistent, and ultimately unsuccessful, attempts to coerce Pence into actions that Pence believed would be unconstitutional during the critical Trump Pence call.
The January 6th Context and Capitol Attack Amidst the Trump Pressure Campaign
These revelations emerge against the backdrop of Donald Trump’s prolonged campaign to challenge the legitimacy of the 2020 election. For weeks following his defeat, Trump and his allies promoted false claims of widespread voter fraud, seeking to pressure state officials and members of Congress, including Vice President Mike Pence, to overturn the election results. On January 6th, as Congress convened to formally certify the Electoral College votes, Trump addressed a rally in Washington, D.C., urging his supporters to march to the Capitol. The subsequent Capitol attack saw rioters breach the building, interrupting the certification process and famously chanting “Hang Mike Pence!” Pence, who was presiding over the joint session, had to be evacuated from the Senate floor. The intensity of the Trump pressure campaign leading up to this event, exemplified by the Trump Pence call, is a central theme.
Upholding the Constitution: Mike Pence’s Stand
From his public statements and his own memoir, “So Help Me God,” Mike Pence has consistently maintained that his role in overseeing the electoral count was ceremonial and that he possessed no constitutional authority to unilaterally reject or alter the votes certified by the states. He has stated he is “proud” of his actions on January 6th, asserting that the idea of any one person choosing the American president is “un-American.” His adherence to his constitutional duty, despite immense pressure, including the final January 6 call, played a pivotal role in the peaceful transfer of power, a cornerstone of American democracy.
These newly detailed accounts from “Retribution” underscore the extreme pressures faced by Mike Pence and highlight the critical junctures in American politics that culminated in the January 6th insurrection. The unearthed details from Pence’s notes continue to fuel discussions about accountability and the preservation of democratic norms in the realm of American politics and news, with the Trump Pence call serving as a stark reminder of these challenges.
